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Posted On: 2005-09-22Length: 26:01

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When you're always going like I am, there are some days that you get up and you have a moment where the reality of marketing just hits you like a ton of bricks. And I had such a moment today when I opened up the Wall Street Journal and read their cover article about new in-store marketing tactics. Now, according to research by Proctor and Gamble, most shoppers will make a product decision, not when drawing up their shopping list, but in the three to seven seconds prior to taking the product off the shelf. Now, this is in direct relation to the Wal-Mart in store advertising network. It gets viewed by 130 million viewers a month. That's insane folks. But it's also great for Proctor and Gamble, because you know what, they're pioneers in marketing. They're consumer health and beauty products blazed the way back in the early 1900s to what we now know as mass market advertising. Back then what we described a couple episodes ago about peer pressure marketing, prevailed as neighbors looked to each other especially in the post-World War II town era. So mass marketing advertising was logical. I mean, you put it in the paper, the woman of the house reads it, and then sets out to find the product on the store shelves to purchase. Now today, with the thousands of advertising messages we're exposed to, this process gets a bit more complicated. Why process? It's simply the organization or the origination of a marketing message, its delivery and its interpretation and a series of synaptic mambo routines that leads to a yes or no purchasing decision. Now Proctor Gamble is just following process here, just on a more microscopic level. People's buying behavior follows a different process today than say 100 years ago. Therefore marketing processes must change as well. Just like me reaching out to you guys every single week is a process, your decision to download the show and listen to what I have to say is also a process. That's why, as I promised last week, I have big news about processes, especially the way that I reach out to you, as well as pulling out all the stops to explain exactly what process is. In fact I am so jacked up about process today I had to bring in a subject matter expert, Ethan, from the Vision Thing to help me explain all the stuff. That, and more, including the first installment of The Apprentice Martha Sarah-watch, is up next on Episode #8, aptly named "Passion, Process and the Pundits."

Rise and Shine 20-somethings. It's time for the 20-Something Marketing Forum, with your host, Jared Degnan.

And greetings and salutations as always marketing fans. This is Jared Degnan, chief contributor of the 20-Something Marketing Forum coming at you for episode #8. Thank you guys so much for tuning in as always. If this is your first time tuning in, let me be the first to say welcome. This is an interactive entertaining podcast focused on the needs of overly ambitious 20-something professionals trying to make their way through the realities of the working world. Now today's all about process, and it's not that hard today to figure out how process relates to 20-something lives. In our lives, there are two types of processes. First of all, there's the explicitly stated process, which is also known as policy, and there's also implicit processes where we get to figure it out for ourselves. Now nothing my friends, illustrates implicit processes like dating. And I'm totally serious about this. The elaborate rituals and processes that we thought up to lead us to an eventual mate are more funny and more asinine than anything you could ever imagine you're going to see in the National Geographic. Now who calls who, do you kiss on the first date, what legally defines stalking, it's almost like a business negotiation in that way. You have to go through the implicit processes and emotions to ensure that all parties remain satisfied in the delicate dance of courtship. And also that all parties remain in their connected, yet autonomous nature just in case they want to dump your ass for something better. Now you can tell that implicit processes creates a whole series of landmines in dating, just as much as it does in your working life. And that's because it's something that you have to interpret for yourself, whereas processes are more explicit and written down.

Now in marketing we tend to shy away from putting explicit processes around things, at least under our internal dealings, and that's simply because it tends to clash with our basic need to be creative and to be passionate about what we do. Now, you can't create a process around a sculpture any more than you can create a process around creating marketing copy. That takes passion. And passion tends to steamroll processes like a cat on a printing press. When it comes, true passionate innovation, and I mean the stuff that really makes up the mother's milk of creative marketing, it comes from spontaneous moments of enlightenment. Passing a stranger on the street, standing in front of a painting, getting ass drunk with your friends. There seems to be more creativity to be found among the chaos than in order, and that my friends, directly contradicts the point of having processes in place. Sure processes can relate to channels, but what about ideas? Every day we come up with ideas whether they be marketing related or otherwise, and we try to force them up the ladder to fruition. Now, along the way we have to deal with the fun of implicit processes. Almost as intriguing as dating is how you get a new idea approved, and that's the process I want to talk about today.

But first, I want to announce my big news. So everyone, drum roll please. My big news that I want to announce, is, wait a second here, we need something. We need more drama. Stand by for two seconds.

Yes! It is time for the big announcement. I could be so dramatic sometimes, can't I. Anyway, my big news is that I am moving servers. That's right! Say sayonara to Peercast Media because we're going out on our very own site. It's going to be www.20somethingmarketing.com. That's www.20somethingmarketing.com. It's fantastic. It has discussion boards. You can log on, you can register, you can discuss with your peers. But best of all, it's going to have more features and more sites and more ways for you to connect with other 20-something marketers. It's a new way, it's a new site, it's bigger, it's better, it's bolder. It's much more fun. I encourage you guys to go and register and log on today. www.20somethingmarketing.com. I don't understand why you're still listening to my podcast. Why don't you go on right now? No! Don't stop listening to the podcast, go on to your Internet right now and log on. www.20somethingmarketing.com.

Please ignore Jared Degnan. He is hyped up on coffee and is very, very excited about www.20somethingmarketing.com. That's www.20somethingmarketing.com. Go there. Now. Please. Log on. Register. Blog. www.20somethingmarketing.com. This message has been brought to you by the 20-Something Marketing Forum.

Nothing quite makes a legitimate point like Hanna Barbera sound effects. You've got to give it to me. Anyway, so now that you've heard the big news, let's quickly go to the fine print and answer some of your questions up front. So, first of all, no I will not be immediately taking down the blog at marketingforum.blogspot.com. Nor will I be cutting off either of the feeds immediately. What I'm going to do is put a special clip on the feeds that need to be moved, and if you're on iTunes, you'll click a special link on the website that will automatically subscribe you to the current feed. Now, if you subscribe through another podcast program, you'll just go to the new site, www.20somethingmarketing.com and you'll use the RSS feed of the site which is located at the bottom left column to substitute for whatever feed you're currently using. Now lastly, if you download the podcast off the website, you just simply go to www.20somethingmarketing.com instead of the blogspot to download it. It's really quite simple. Ultimately though, it's going to make it easier for you to receive the podcast because the blog feed and the podcast are going to be consolidated into one feed. You'll also be able to get more content, including the bonus vidcast. I know some of you who subscribe via Peercast did not get the vidcast, and I know that's something that you all love, except of course my boss, who doesn't seem to like the vidcast for some reason. The reason is he keeps on telling me that I have the face for radio and I should just stick to it. Anyway, the new site features include fantastic things like the ability to discuss topics on the forum board. You can add your voice by registering for the site, and of course it has the ability to run polls. You can also listen to the podcast directly from the website with no software to install, and a ton of other fixes that I put in specifically based on your great feedback.

Speaking of which for now, I'm going to keep jsdwdc@yahoo.com as my primary feedback mechanism. But you can also know use jared@20somethingmarketing.com. Now stay tuned, because as long as you're logged on and registered, I'll be able to add more features and more ways for you guys to interact. Also, as always, if you're interested in becoming a correspondent, the sites going to allow you to do more than ever. It's totally flexible, so blogging, podcasting, whatever it is that you want to do to contribute to the 20-Something Marketing Forum, you can now do with the new site. So email me at jsdwdc@yahoo.com if you're interested, and we will go from there.

You're listening to the 20-Something Marketing Forum.

All right, I've got with me Ethan from the Vision Thing weblog here to talk a little bit about process, and its relevance to our day-to-day working lives. First of all, welcome Ethan.

Thanks for having me.

Let's first start out by finding out a little bit about the Vision Thing weblog and why you do it.

Well, the Vision Thing started out as what was supposed to be a team blog, and it didn't quite shake out that way, so that's why on my podcast I refer to myself as chief contributor, kind of as an inside joke, in that I'm really the only contributor. But it also reflects that the intent was that it was to be a team blog all along. And the name came out of a review I was giving somebody, you know, back when I was entrusted with that power to give somebody their year-end review, and I said, do you have any questions for me, and they said, no you've got the vision thing. And I said, well, hey, that sounds like a great blog name, and so I started working out the details for how it would be a team blog, and I opened it up to everybody on the team that I had, and it didn't really catch fire. I think they all, you know the people who were going to post did it like on the first day, and that was like it.

Yeah, I definitely understand. So tell me why process, and what really drives the work that you do?

As far as what the blog is about, I mean, you know, because of what I really more was doing as opposed to what I do now, tends to focus on process related stuff. However, you know I kind of from the beginning tried to leave it wide open so that there was a lot of latitude about what could be talked about. So that's why, you know once again doing the three word tag line trick from the you know the late 90s where's it's business, process, management. On the one hand it's a hook for the nerds that care about BPM a lot, but it also shows that there's wide latitude. Like I'm not going to just talk about process. And the feedback I've been seeing out there when people don't actually talk to me, they talk about me, they're just saying I love the process stuff, and I hate everything else. It's like, but I love doing everything else.

Awesome. So why don't you talk a little bit about process. Give our listeners a little bit of a primer about why process is different from policy and how it really relates to what we're talking about here at the 20-Something Marketing Forum.

Well, I think you know, to kind of take it out of the workplace a little bit. Let's look at Katrina as a great example of this where process, hugely was at issue about how the cleanup, or how the response to Katrina went. And it was a blend of process and then politics, or policy. You know, giving somebody a bottle of water is a process that you can follow pretty, you know, you can follow it a standard way. You know if I hand you the bottle of water and I turn to the next person I'm probably going to do it the exact same way, you know. But if I say well, anybody whose name is Jared can't get a bottle of water, and then everybody else can, then that's a policy, or politics thing, you now. And so, I'm just going to really use a very loose definition of process and just say that it's how you do what you do. You know, and then a lot of people get hung up on policy, where they're like, well I wasn't allowed to do whatever. But that has nothing to do, process, because the process that you would have followed if they would have let you do it, would have been the same anyway. But on the other hand, if it's like, well you know, I want to do a control smiley face apple whatever to reboot my computer, and your computer only does control alt delete to do that or whatever then that's a process thing, but it has nothing to do with policy. You know it might be the policy of whatever you know computer maker say, well I don't want to make my buttons do what the other guys do. In and of itself that would be a process issue, well I can't do control alt delete on a MAC, or if I do I'm not going to get the, it won't do what Microsoft does. Then again that may be a good or bad thing, I don't know. I'm not a MAC user.

Well, I can tell you that I'm a MAC user and I love it. Anyway, so I know you've got a new podcast series out right now, and it's called Process for the People. You want to talk about that for a little bit, and explain what it exactly is?

Well again, I've been seeing a lot of like, I guess we'll say misinformation where a lot of people think that they're, you know they rail against some problem that they perceive, and then they call it process, but then what they're really mad about is policy. And so more and more it's like you know, it's very clear that the term BPM, business process management has really been kind of you know, hijacked for various purposes and that's really muddying the water about what it actually is. And then even worse in my point of view, it's like well, if you're talking about like writing software, then process management really is kind of a discipline unto itself for writing software. And that's not what I do. But it starts to get too muddied into what I actually do, and people are like, oh well then you must, you know everything probably is a flow chart then. Well it really doesn't. Well you probably have to have one. No, I really don't. And so more and more it was like there's very clearly a need for this to just really kind of explain to the people, you know, what is process really and why do you care? Cause I think a lot of times a lot of these process oriented blogs that are out there, and I'm always on the lookout for them, but they're very hard to find as far as process as it applies to what I do. And, or did. And, you know a lot of times they'll just jump right in with the acronyms and the jargon and all that and they just assume you know what they're talking about, and they don't actually explain what they're talking about. Either you're on the inside or you're not. And I thought, well here's a way to really kind of set this apart to say, I want to be the go to resource for this guy explaining the process.

Now let's shift gears a little bit and talk about your personal experiences. Can you tell us about a time in which you had to use process vs. policy to overcome something?

Well, often times, I mean you know like, I worked for a big corporation and I can't say who, but you know the, there is a lot of hierarchy and a lot of politics. And the thing is, is that you know, it's very hard to standardize because everybody's got their own little thiefdom and whatnot and they've all got there own version of how things should be done. And of course if there's any kind of you know, churn in your workforce, then you, in comes the next crowd from wherever they came from. They pretty much want to make, you know, like as above so below, like ok I came from Sears, now let's make everything like Sears. And then that person leaves and the next person comes from K-Mart and says let's make everything like K-Mart. You know? It's like ok, great. And so what I've found is is that any time there's resistance to process, changes or implementation, is that you really have to hit them hard with you know, here's what we're doing now, here's what I propose, and then here's the daylight between the two of these views. It's like if you want to keep on keeping on with what you're doing, then here's what this means. If you switch to plan B, then here's what this means. And that tends to go over a lot better when people really understand like, yeah, we really are shooting ourselves in the foot with Plan A, you know. But it takes a lot of work to really put that kind of package together to be able to convince people. You know sometimes, honestly, politics is going to win out, like the VP wants this because he came from wherever, and that's how it's going to be. You know there's really nothing you can do in that case, but what you can do anyway for your own benefit is still document it anyway. And then that way you've got it on hand so that if that person goes away, then the next crowd can be looking at, well we've done this thing, let's look at doing this thing. And you kind of have a fresh set of ears for that idea.

Ok. As you can see, we had a little bit of technical difficulties, towards the end there. But Ethan and I quickly wrapped it up from there. So I wanted to quickly thank Ethan for being so patient amongst my neophyte interviewing skills. But I also want to thank him specifically for that last part, where he really did talk about how, as someone new comes into the organization as 20-sometings often do, we want to apply what we've previously learned and bring in our processes from our old offices. And how if we really want to be sustainable in these processes, we have to build upon everything else that has come before. And as also Ethan mentioned, politics tends to take over everything. So it's interesting to look at process, and we'll talk a little bit more about that in the game plan as it relates to kind of building up your idea and integrating it with previous instances.

So, I also want to quickly point you guys to the visionthing.com. That's www.thevisionthing.com to check out the Vision Thing blog, done by Ethan. He posts all the time, he's got some really intelligent content, as well as his process for the people segment, which is very, very, Very on point and I can't stress enough how much I love the segment. So again, thanks to you Ethan. I definitely appreciate it, and I'll come on to Process for the People any time you want in case you want somebody as you know, comic relief or something. So we'll go to quick segment segue and then we will hit it with The Apprentice Martha Sarah-watch.

And just when you thought it was safe to write letters. Martha strikes back. Oh yes, folks. As I've mentioned earlier, one of the people who works at my former firm here in DC is now on The Apprentice Martha Stewart. So thanks to Sarah and Martha and the dear people at NBC, I have a new segment. Sarah-watch. This is going to be so much fun. It's like the Apprentice with Donald, only with gays. It's hilarious. If you haven't seen it, tune in every Wednesday. It'll be fantastic. Anyway, now, before you get too excited, Sarah's actually fairly sweet, and from what I know of those of my coworkers who actually worked with her intimately, she wasn't a raging bitch, but I want to use this to see just how many of the firm-wide culture quirks that seem to rise to the surface. Basically you know how some firms have a very strong culture. Let's just say this, my old firm puts cults to shame. What's even better, we had a tongue-in-cheek joke that if you ever wanted to identify one of our staffers at a meeting, you looked for the Stepford Wives. We were all young, blonde, and thankfully for me, I wasn't blonde and I stopped drinking the Koolaid. Now I can ridicule the heck out of the culture, and I'm using poor little Sarah to do it. But I do happen to love the show, it's fantastic, it's going to be, it's just, oh it's hilarious. So let's go into a little bit of analysis.

First thing that struck me, Charles the chairman of the board, actually apparently his son dated Bethany and who is also Bethany was also the friend of his daughter in Paris. So this is really interesting. Also we have the corporate vs. creative, which fits so well into this podcast. This is just going to give me so much fricking potential. It's great. Now I wanted to like quickly wrap up by saying, notice what role Sarah played. She was the one who got the feedback from the kids, and this is typical of my old firm. Meetings were not very creative, as I had mentioned a couple podcasts ago. But they are very careful to get feedback from the participants, and that's where I think Sarah is really going to execute. But we'll see when it comes down to actually having her being creative, I think that it will be excellent. Also, what I have to say is, they talked about the writing being difficult, and the person with whatever her name was who didn't get kicked off who should have. But basically she was like oh, well I can't, I can't write with the noise. Try writing this podcast with the noise of my office. I'm kidding. Boss, I love you. I don't actually write the podcast in the fricking thing. So, anyway. That seems to be it for today, and so I'm going to go ahead and lead you guys onto the game plan.

Ok. And finally today we have our game plan. I was going to do something a lot larger than this today, but unfortunately we're running long thanks to Ethan, and his wonderful insights about process. But I wanted to distill it into three main points. Point number one: know process. Go to thevisionthing.com and learn a little bit about process and what it entails. Because if you can't understand what the nature of process is, you're never going to be able to decipher what the implicit processes are in your office. Point number two: you need to understand that just like in a marketing message, when you create the message, in the end it might not be interpreted how you meant it because of noise. A process is three components, it's your effort plus the process itself that's going to lead to your result. That result is not always going to be what you want it to be because of the process. You have to make sure that your message and your efforts are so well defined and in such understanding of the atmosphere around it that you can actually clearly define where you're going and thus inspire your process to actually move forward. And we'll talk a little bit more about that next episode. And then finally and lastly I'm going to take this point directly from my grandfather. And it, as he says about prices in negotiations, that your price, that is mighty price, and then there are going to be prices that we agree upon. Understand that there are all types of processes. There are processes that you have, there are processes that the person you want to convince has, and then there's of course going to be the process that you are ultimately going to settle on. Understand that there are people who came before you and to effectively create the kind of process that you want to drive your ideas forward, you need to be able to seriously negotiate and seriously compromise.

That's it for today marketing fans. I definitely appreciate you guys tuning in. Again, go to www.20somethingmarketing.com, our brand new site. Log in, register, enjoy. We will definitely put a lot more up there. If you've got iTunes, don't subscribe quite yet, because I will tell you when you need to subscribe. I want to make sure that everything is taken care of in terms of making sure of the people who make unsubscribed from the feeds that I currently have So listen out on each of your respective feeds, and we will let you know when you need to unsubscribe, and then how to subscribe again. And then finally, lastly people, I want you to go out, take your coffee with you, and have a great, great, day. This has been Jared Degnan, the chief contributor to the 20-Something Marketing Forum, signing off. Thank you guys so much, and I will catch you on the flipside.

Discuss It!

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It happens sometimes or in some cases, sometimes we didnât take the things so seriously than after sometimes we realized we did the big mistake of our life and those things, in reality, go so far. Just like properties rates were not too much high as before 10 years ago but now itâs too expensive.

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nice article

privatewriting.com review said:

I'm still going to go with this here because I'm very excited to know about new business tricks then big companies have. Always be creative in your work so you also feel energetic.

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